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- Yesterday
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Somewhat.
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Like a dog whistle?
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I didn't say that. Analogies or comparisons that relate to Hitler are known as Nazi analogies or Nazi comparisons. It's inflammatory and becomes a perpetual camel spitting contest - even if you don't say Nazi. Association is a verbal communication technique that links a message to something that a person already does or does not value, does or does not trust, likes or dislikes, such as a concept, person, brand, or benefit. It's most common in persuasive communications and plays on emotions, rather than facts.
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Well, that's the future potential danger. The real problem isn't the authoritarian - it's the populace that supports dicatorships as long as said dictatorships do what they want. And that's the problem that is also hardest to solve.
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Just using the term, even if descriptive of how power was gained rather than as descriptive of the actual policies, heightens the emotion. People conflate them; it’s kind of like saying “oh, you have a terrible combover, just like Trump.” People (well, liberals at least) will take that as being far more pejorative than the words say. Even if the techniques are, in fact, similar, or the combover is, in fact, awful Wendy P.
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Then don't use that term. There are parallels between their rises to power. There are also similiarities against other authoritarians rising to power. Studying them can avoid future threats to our country. Those who do not study history are destined to repeat it - and "it can't happen here" has never been true no matter how heartfelt the sentiment.
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The combination of nationalism, isolationism, the taint of racism, misuse of religion, showmanship and above all populism all are factors that Trump has combined into his own unprecedented formula for just enough success to gain power through exploiting the flaws in the American federal system. It is hard to compare him to any of the 20th century figures being alluded to here. I feel that he is uniquely American and an entrepreneur and of course narcissist of the first order. Two things stand out to me marking him as very different. His age for one. He is far too old to ever become a dictator like those being spoken of. But more importantly, he does not really have an overarching agenda he wants to accomplish. Other than of course to accumulate money and power. The real danger is not Trump. It is the forces that he may unleash that will follow him into the future. Trump is not disciplined enough or smart enough to really lead. He merely reinforces the worst in his supporters that is already present.
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What exactly are you agreeing with though? Nothing about this thread involved calling anyone a Nazi.
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Today three arrests were made. All three Indian citizens and all in Canada. https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/03/americas/canada-sikh-nijjar-assassination-suspects-intl-latam/index.html https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/nijjar-killing-arrests-made-1.7192807 The speculation seems to be that elements of the Indian government used hired gangsters already in Canada to carry out the assassination.
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Time Left: 29 days and 14 hours
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Berlin
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I have to agree with TK on this point. Taking a broad stroke labeling approach only serves to create emotion and loses an opportunity to educate. "Nazi" just turns into a camel spitting contest.
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yeah that at least is a good way to explain part of my point... overused and dilutes the atrocities that took place. Trump is still a piece of shit capable of doing many evil things if he is given the opportunity. There is a significant portion of the population that has no problem with a dictatorship, because the country would at least 'look like them and their daily life', and they have delusions about 'some better time' that they have be robbed of, despite the fact that most things are just fine. Hate and fear still drives much of the movement towards authoritarianism. I do not undertsnad the human psyche that allows that to take over ones feelings about any given issue, but it certainly is a thing. You cannot do it if you simply point at any one individual person - you have to identify an entire group of people as your enemy and then everyone within that group becomes the enemy.
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Post trump Legal Actions, Including his Enablers
ryoder replied to Phil1111's topic in Speakers Corner
I hope you are sitting down for this: The company hired to audit Trump Media may have some problems: SEC charges Trump Media auditor with ‘massive fraud’ on hundreds of companies, imposes lifetime ban The agency, calling BF Borgers a “sham audit mill,” said the company and its owner “deliberately systematically failed to conduct” audits and quarterly reviews incorporated in more than 1,500 SEC filings from January 2021 through June 2023 in accordance with Public Company Accounting Oversight Board standards. -
Word meanings morph over time, like awful for example. Nazi, now, apparently has a broader definition, like asshole for example.
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And in the end, he was sacked by the king. Unfortunately, the US does not have a king to sack POTUS if he goes out of control.
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And another. WASHINGTON — The Justice Department on Friday released an indictment against longtime Rep. Henry Cuellar, D-Texas, and his wife, Imelda, charging the pair with bribery and money laundering related to their ties with a bank in Mexico and an oil and gas company controlled by Azerbaijan.
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OK. Project 2025 is Trump's plan. Are you talking about Trump or Orban here? One interesting difference between Orban and Trump is that Trump had the "Access Hollywood" tape that would seem to destroy his chances for the presidency, but instead either did nothing or improved his popularity (depending on which author you listen to.) Orban benefited from a similar speech - the Oszod speech, where the speaker ranted against the MSZP party in Hungary in a profanity-laced tirade. However, this speech was given by Prime Minister Gyurcsany, the prime ministead and leader of the MSZP. When the (confidential) speech was leaked, the public outcry gave Orban his chance against Gyurcsany. And there is nothing specifically Nazi about Trump. His platform does not contain the word "socialist" in the title, for example. But there are a great many parallels in how Trump and Hitler came to power.
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Then I think you miss the point. Orban is a decent parallel - but the American right has already been fooled into liking Orban, so there's no value in pursuing it. Mussolini took power after being appointed by the King. Not much parallel there - the USA does not have a King. Ceausescu was appointed by the Politburo when Romania was already a vassal state of the USSR under totalitarian Soviet rule. No parallel there. Gaddafi was a military officer who took power in a coup having never previously been involved in politics. No parallel there. U Ne Win siezed power in a military coup. No parallel there. Now, I get what you're thinking about - just a few days ago archeologists found the skeletons of an entire family that had been executed and buried under one of Hermann Goering's residences and it makes you think that however bad Trump is there's no comparison to Nazi atrocities. But it's the career trajectory, political statements, and way of coming into power that has such striking similarities in a way that your other examples do not.
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get elected. change the rules to accumulate power and to stay in power. your supporters assist you and do not stand in the way, even actively help make that happen. (Project 2025 is that plan). The fence-sitters complain but fail to act or wait until it is too late. Many people assume the checks and balances will work, but the people that run those checks balances are replaced by loyalists. Each step is an erosion of the democracy and eventually there is nothing to stop the authoritarian from ruling. Nothing specifically 'Nazi' about it.
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Sure. What are they? What can you learn from (for example) Orban's rise to power compared to Trump's?
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SARS killed less than 1000 people, and every year we have new versions of pretty much everything. It is just a matter of time before another COVID/SARS/Flu/MERS comes along and kills millions worldwide. but yeah, it will be respiratory, and it will be unresponsive to normal treatments, and it will be easily spread due to the world we live in and the amount of travel and interaction that we do.
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10 years between SARS and MERS 8 years between MERS and COVID 4 years between COVID and new respiratory virus would somewhat fit
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But it’s hard to ignore the similarities between Trump and Orban. But it’s hard to ignore the similarities between Trump and Mussolini But it’s hard to ignore the similarities between Trump and Ceaușescu. But it’s hard to ignore the similarities between Trump and Khadafi. But it’s hard to ignore the similarities between Trump and U Ne Win Which is my point. there are so many other examples, but we default to Nazi. We can leave all that out and just talk about Trump and what he actually is, what he actually says, and what he actually does..... and has done.... but yeah, I get the comparison, I am just tired of the monolithic nature of it.
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I'm a believer that those who do not study history are doomed to repeat it. Yep. Wouldn't it have been great if Germans could have stopped that _before_ Hitler seized power? And to the last point, sure, you can be insulted by that. But I am going to tend to go with what such people are insulted by, rather than your feelings on the subject. And here's what Zeev Hod, a Holocaust survivor, had to say on the issue in 2016: “One of the things people used to say about Hitler when he rose to power in the early 1930’s was that he was saying it like it is. They thought he was a bit of a clown, with his big speeches and over-the-top showmanship, but they also admired his ability to say what everyone thought, but didn’t dare say out loud.” His son asked him if he was worried. "Not yet - but there is definitely room for concern.” A few months later, after Trump was elected, Hod added this - “Not only has my concern not dissipated, it’s grown much stronger. I don’t believe another Holocaust is imminent. But it’s hard to ignore the similarities between Trump and Hitler.” https://www.thewrap.com/holocaust-survivor-father-feels-president-trump/
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I get that, but Trump could also be compared to many other authoritarian types in history that took power with similar controls moves, even getting elected..... but we only seem to use the Hitler comparison on a regular basis.
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