"Partner protection" @ '09 USPA Nationals

[davelepka 4]

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That is silliest thing I have read in this thread. Maybe if you strech a little farther you can tie them to Hitler or the Taliban. I bet they are buying guns for terrorist with some of that money

First of all, I never said that Spaceland was involved with Skyride, but I think I made a fair comaprison.

What we're talking about here is a small group of 'business people', DZOs on the one hand, and competitors at Nationals on the other.

These business people are trying to attract a fairly limited commodity, tandem students for the DZOs, and sponsorship money for the competitors.

Skyride, as we know, simply intercepts customers looking for a DZ, and inserts themselves into the transaction. The DZO end up with less revenue from the same number of available tandem students in their area.

Spaceland has cornered a good chunk of the available sponsorship dollars, and limited the value of the remaining sponsorship dollars. The competitors end up with fewer sponsorship opportunities.

In both cases, if Skyride and Spaceland did not engage in this activity, the 'business people' would have additional opportunities for seeking their desired commodity.

In the case of Skyride, it's just business, and as dirty as it may be they hold no responsibility for the success or failure of DZ across the counrty.

However, in the case of Spaceland, I believe they do hold a degree of responsibility for the effected parties in their situation (the competitors). All of their dealings with regards to Nationals should be on the basis of, 'First, do no harm', and in this sense I believe they have failed.

Just because you don't agree does not mean it's silly. The comaprison is fair, and applicable.

[Reginald 0]

One guy's opinion based on attending Nationals, is that this whole thing is a non-issue. It's just a made up issue for people on the internet, that likely are not affected in any way, to complain about "The Man."

And while we are at it IMHO Spaceland did a great job with the facilities and hosting of Nationals.

"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

[nbblood 0]

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One guy's opinion based on attending Nationals, is that this whole thing is a non-issue. It's just a made up issue for people on the internet, that likely are not affected in any way, to complain about "The Man."

And while we are at it IMHO Spaceland did a great job with the facilities and hosting of Nationals.

What?? The sky is NOT falling??

Blues,
Nathan

If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

[topdocker 0]

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One guy's opinion based on attending Nationals, is that this whole thing is a non-issue. It's just a made up issue for people on the internet, that likely are not affected in any way, to complain about "The Man."

And while we are at it IMHO Spaceland did a great job with the facilities and hosting of Nationals.

Gosh, the Nationals are not even a third over and you have said they did a great job. Maybe you can award them the Nobel Peace prize, too.

There are many events to be run and many jumps to be done. I'm here all this week and next week, so I'll wait to a little bit. There have been glitches, and overall its been great, but ....

I'm waiting to cast my ballot.

top

Jump more, post less!

[CSpenceFLY 1]

I'm sure someone will blame them for the weather holds

[nbblood 0]

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I'm sure someone will blame them for the weather holds

That's already happened......on the free live feed video and chat that Spaceland provided.

Blues,
Nathan

If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

[billvon 2,974]

>One guy's opinion based on attending Nationals, is that this whole thing
>is a non-issue.

A few comments from people here:

"I didn't notice anything different."
"It would be OK if they had a few tents but they don't have ANY tents. You would think that long weather holds would be a good time to check out vendor tents."
"Stupid idea; USPA is putting profits ahead of competitors."

Personally it didn't bother me much. From people I've talked to it didn't affect anyone this year, but might affect 4-5 teams over the next few years.

[Reginald 0]

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Gosh, the Nationals are not even a third over and you have said they did a great job. Maybe you can award them the Nobel Peace prize, too.

There are many events to be run and many jumps to be done. I'm here all this week and next week, so I'll wait to a little bit. There have been glitches, and overall its been great, but ....

I'm waiting to cast my ballot.

top

What, there are events after 4 way???

"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

[icevideot 0]

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WHICH actual teams does this hurt and exactly HOW?


If someone says there are on 'Team Buffalo Snot' and their sponsor which gave them $20,000 to compete, won't do so next year because they can't put up a wind blade...then maybe we'd have some 'real world' evidence that the sky IS falling.

I see this as a naive thing to ask.

Let's say Joe is on "Team Buffalo Snot" sponsored by "Buffalo Snot Lube, Inc"

And say their sponsorship consisted of Jumpsuits, Packing Tent, and registration and jumps only at events. Just to throw out a number let's say $10,000.

They don't directly compete with any other vendor at the event but we can all use a good lube, right?

Now if the tent won't be advertising their product, their advertising bang for buck just took a nosedive.

If future sponsorship is already in question do you think it would be wise for Joe to throw the company name into the line of fire for such a stink storm?

I wouldn't in their case.

"... this ain't a Nerf world."

[airtwardo 7]

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Quote

WHICH actual teams does this hurt and exactly HOW?


If someone says there are on 'Team Buffalo Snot' and their sponsor which gave them $20,000 to compete, won't do so next year because they can't put up a wind blade...then maybe we'd have some 'real world' evidence that the sky IS falling.

I see this as a naive thing to ask.

Let's say Joe is on "Team Buffalo Snot" sponsored by "Buffalo Snot Lube, Inc"

And say their sponsorship consisted of Jumpsuits, Packing Tent, and registration and jumps only at events. Just to throw out a number let's say $10,000.

They don't directly compete with any other vendor at the event but we can all use a good lube, right?

Now if the tent won't be advertising their product, their advertising bang for buck just took a nosedive.

If future sponsorship is already in question do you think it would be wise for Joe to throw the company name into the line of fire for such a stink storm?

I wouldn't in their case.

HUH?!


Like I said....WHAT ACTUAL TEAM got hurt by this policy???

You can throw out 'what if's' all day, if they have no real world pertinence...why bother?


It's naive to post 'chicken little' predictions without having any facts to predicate the theory.

I did make it down to the Nationals a few times and spoke with members of several teams...the consencus was, it's a non-issue.

They ALL did however, comment on how well the event was/is being run and the high quality of the staff & facility.

This whole 'partner protection' hurting the Nationals...is a dead issue.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[icevideot 0]

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The ads however pissed almost everyone off. It my opinion, you don't have to like it.

There are ads on here? I haven't really noticed

"... this ain't a Nerf world."

[icevideot 0]

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You could hold a vigil outside the gates.

Fixed it for you

"... this ain't a Nerf world."

[floormonkey 0]

I spent 6 days at Nationals. There were no vendors to speak of. The "protected partners" did not have booths set up. Granted, it was raining, but they had nothing except empty tents.

I repeatedly heard comments about how "small" the event seemed. I think it was because there were no vendors standing around talking and interacting with others. The social scene during the day at previous nationals seemed to revolve around the vendor tents.

I only saw one protected partner while I was there, and he was talking shit about one of the other protected partners.

[lost_n_confuzd 0]

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I repeatedly heard comments about how "small" the event seemed. I think it was because there were no vendors standing around talking and interacting with others. The social scene during the day at previous nationals seemed to revolve around the vendor tents.

I've never been to Nationals or any skydiving comp. for that matter. Would you say the social scene that revolved around the vendors from previous nationals was a good thing that was missed from this year? Thanks

[billvon 2,974]

>Would you say the social scene that revolved around the vendors from
>previous nationals was a good thing that was missed from this year?

I missed it. While I was jumping I didn't really care, but during weather holds (and there were a lot of them) it would have been nice.

[beowulf 1]

The party scene was severely lacking in the evenings. I think that was due to the numerous and massively sized mosquitos. Spaceland is definitely not a party dropzone.

To me it seemed like the vendors did not make the most of their sponsorship. All they had was lots of banners and wind blades.

(sorry not feeling well)

[billvon 2,974]

>The party scene was severely lacking in the evenings.

Agreed. I brought some good beer at nights (which went pretty fast) but shortly after that was gone everybody from the Perris contingent seemed to head off to Pearland or Angleton. I must have spent twelve hours or so in the Pearland BJ's.

[Nomad 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

WHICH actual teams does this hurt and exactly HOW?


If someone says there are on 'Team Buffalo Snot' and their sponsor which gave them $20,000 to compete, won't do so next year because they can't put up a wind blade...then maybe we'd have some 'real world' evidence that the sky IS falling.

I see this as a naive thing to ask.

Let's say Joe is on "Team Buffalo Snot" sponsored by "Buffalo Snot Lube, Inc"

And say their sponsorship consisted of Jumpsuits, Packing Tent, and registration and jumps only at events. Just to throw out a number let's say $10,000.

They don't directly compete with any other vendor at the event but we can all use a good lube, right?

Now if the tent won't be advertising their product, their advertising bang for buck just took a nosedive.

If future sponsorship is already in question do you think it would be wise for Joe to throw the company name into the line of fire for such a stink storm?

I wouldn't in their case.

HUH?!


Like I said....WHAT ACTUAL TEAM got hurt by this policy???

You can throw out 'what if's' all day, if they have no real world pertinence...why bother?


It's naive to post 'chicken little' predictions without having any facts to predicate the theory.

I did make it down to the Nationals a few times and spoke with members of several teams...the consencus was, it's a non-issue.

They ALL did however, comment on how well the event was/is being run and the high quality of the staff & facility.

This whole 'partner protection' hurting the Nationals...is a dead issue.

***

Untrue. Real world, first hand; I was attempting to get a skydiver sponsored by a major, none-skydiving related company. Marketing deck and time lines were based on the ability of the athlete to rep at nationals both this year and beyond; the company was on board and ready to move forward until the ability to rep at nationals was taken away. Still working for this so I won't say it's completely dead, but HUGE problems were caused directly because of 'partner protection'. Time and momentum have been lost when we were trying to bring a new company in with there first ever sponsored skydiver. Absolutely NOT a dead issue.

With the sponsorship fees they required wrap your head around this; companies were spending approximately .29cents per USPA skydiver across the country on this marketing effort. I have paid sponsorship dollars to get my brand on major TV sporting events, over 4 days, for less total cost. Absolutely ridiculous and much better ways to proceed for the benefit of all in this sport, rather than the pockets of few.

All that is gold does not glitter, Not all who wander are lost.

[nbblood 0]

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Untrue. Real world, first hand; I was attempting to get a skydiver sponsored by a major, none-skydiving related company. Marketing deck and time lines were based on the ability of the athlete to rep at nationals both this year and beyond; the company was on board and ready to move forward until the ability to rep at nationals was taken away. Still working for this so I won't say it's completely dead, but HUGE problems were caused directly because of 'partner protection'. Time and momentum have been lost when we were trying to bring a new company in with there first ever sponsored skydiver. Absolutely NOT a dead issue.

Sounds to me like the company's sponsorship dollars are better spent on sponsoring the event and not the skydiver. Everybody wants their share of sponsorship and free rides, but not everybody can provide, back to the sponsor, the money's worth in investment. That is solely for the sponsor to decide. The DZ or event is trying to break even or [gasp] make money cause that's what businesses do....holy crap!.....and people get fussy because they can't compete. Well, welcome to the real world and the facts of life. Provide something to the sponsor that makes you worth their sponsorship dollars, considering that businesses are going to continue to try to make money despite your efforts. I guess he could have taken the tent and his advertising to a major sports stadium and met his sponsorship agreement there......oh, wait......no he couldn't, because they have partner protection too!!! This is NOT unprecedented.

With the sponsorship fees they required wrap your head around this; companies were spending approximately .29cents per USPA skydiver across the country on this marketing effort. I have paid sponsorship dollars to get my brand on major TV sporting events, over 4 days, for less total cost. Absolutely ridiculous and much better ways to proceed for the benefit of all in this sport, rather than the pockets of few.

Yes, you paid less because there were a whole lot more sponsors footing their share of the bill, making it possible to spread the cost burden lighter among all. Imagine that! When a business is trying to break even and can only gather a handful of sponsors, the cost is going to be greater. You're comparing apples to oranges here. AND the sponsors that do decide to pay their advertising money to sponsor event expect some level of exclusivity, otherwise they'd have no reason to sponsor the event other than out of the kindness of their hearts (not a good business plan by the way). Sure, in a perfect world, we all sing Kumbaya and every manufacturer contributes to both sponsor skydivers and the event and the skydivers, in return support the sponsors through purchases of equipment and goods and the DZ is just there to provide a happy environment and planes so everybody can be happy and they don't care if they make any money. Well, welcome to the real world and capitalism. Businesses strive to make money. Businesses spend their sponsorship $$ where they think it will benefit them. Athletes/people that provide investment return to sponsors get sponsored. Events/businesses that provide investment return get sponsored. Those that don't, DON'T.

If people would spend more time and energy figuring out how they could earn their sponsorship dollars (oh, and many, many do), instead of bitching about something or somebody that got in their way by protecting their own interests, then they'd probably be more productive.......if they truly have something to offer for their sponsorship. Times have changed. Rules have changed. Time to adapt and overcome.......or go un-sponsored.

Blues,
Nathan

If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

[billvon 2,974]

>Sounds to me like the company's sponsorship dollars are better spent on
>sponsoring the event and not the skydiver.

This, to me, is the bottom line. Do we want skydivers or events sponsored? I'd rather steer that money to skydivers.

>The DZ or event is trying to break even or [gasp] make money cause
>that's what businesses do....holy crap!.....and people get fussy because
>they can't compete.

Using that logic, there should be no problem with dropzones taking Skyride certificates. After all, Skyride doesn't hurt anyone, and the DZ just wants to break even or (gasp!) make money.

>imes have changed. Rules have changed. Time to adapt and
>overcome.......or go un-sponsored.

Or make it clear to our USPA representatives that WE are in charge of USPA, rather than gear manufacturers or DZO's.

[Bolas 5]

How were sponsorships offered? Was it a sponsorship exclusivity deal to the highest bidder for each type of product (1 canopy manufacturer, 1 rig vendor) or was it a flat rate to all?

Were all companies made aware of the protection aspect?

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[Bolas 5]

Companies have a limited amount of advertising $$$.

In the past, if they didn't want to spend the $$$ to officially be at an event, they could provide locally sponsored skydivers with items to give out which encourages them to sponsor more skydivers for this.

With protection plans like this there is less value in them sponsoring as many.

This doesn't hurt the big, top level sponsored teams per se, more the little guy that is just trying to defray some of the costs of their gear.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[Nomad 0]

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Sounds to me like the company's sponsorship dollars are better spent on sponsoring the event and not the skydiver. Everybody wants their share of sponsorship and free rides, but not everybody can provide, back to the sponsor, the money's worth in investment. That is solely for the sponsor to decide. The DZ or event is trying to break even or [gasp] make money cause that's what businesses do....holy crap!.....and people get fussy because they can't compete. Well, welcome to the real world and the facts of life. Provide something to the sponsor that makes you worth their sponsorship dollars, considering that businesses are going to continue to try to make money despite your efforts. I guess he could have taken the tent and his advertising to a major sports stadium and met his sponsorship agreement there......oh, wait......no he couldn't, because they have partner protection too!!! This is NOT unprecedented.

Yes, you paid less because there were a whole lot more sponsors footing their share of the bill, making it possible to spread the cost burden lighter among all. Imagine that! When a business is trying to break even and can only gather a handful of sponsors, the cost is going to be greater. You're comparing apples to oranges here. AND the sponsors that do decide to pay their advertising money to sponsor event expect some level of exclusivity, otherwise they'd have no reason to sponsor the event other than out of the kindness of their hearts (not a good business plan by the way). Sure, in a perfect world, we all sing Kumbaya and every manufacturer contributes to both sponsor skydivers and the event and the skydivers, in return support the sponsors through purchases of equipment and goods and the DZ is just there to provide a happy environment and planes so everybody can be happy and they don't care if they make any money. Well, welcome to the real world and capitalism. Businesses strive to make money. Businesses spend their sponsorship $$ where they think it will benefit them. Athletes/people that provide investment return to sponsors get sponsored. Events/businesses that provide investment return get sponsored. Those that don't, DON'T.

If people would spend more time and energy figuring out how they could earn their sponsorship dollars (oh, and many, many do), instead of bitching about something or somebody that got in their way by protecting their own interests, then they'd probably be more productive.......if they truly have something to offer for their sponsorship. Times have changed. Rules have changed. Time to adapt and overcome.......or go un-sponsored.

[Krip 2]

Hi Nate

Since this is the internet, and its hard to tell who's the real deal, Personnel Agenda's,etc sometimes reviewing a persons profile can come in handy when trying to figure out who's blowing smoke.

I thought Nomad had some good points in her post checked her profile and then read your response and checked your profile.

Say hi to Mr Packer Boy

Who can I bitch at for starting this worrthless nonsense thread

One Jump Wonder

[nbblood 0]

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Hi Nate

Since this is the internet, and its hard to tell who's the real deal, Personnel Agenda's,etc sometimes reviewing a persons profile can come in handy when trying to figure out who's blowing smoke.

I thought Nomad had some good points in her post checked her profile and then read your response and checked your profile.

Say hi to Mr Packer Boy

Who can I bitch at for starting this worrthless nonsense thread

What can you tell from my profile? Profiles are VERY limited in info. You can derive what you want out of that.

You may conclude that I have a personal agenda, but really I don't. Yes, I worked at Spaceland and certainly believe in the DZ and its business structure. But I don't work for them now. I don't represent them in any way. If it seems that I have an agenda to support them, no, I don't. Do I have a bias in their favor....sure....I'll grant that. But my thoughts are on the concepts and principles not the DZ or any other organization behind them. Does my profile reflect I have a master's degree in business management? No, I guess it doesn't. Is it a different perspective than Nomad's? Sure. Does Nomad have valid points? Absolutely. Is comparing major sporting events to skydiving (certainly not a "major" sporting event) valid? In some cases, yes. In other cases, no.

Here's the bottom line: Businesses are going to spend their sponsorship dollars the way they see fit. Quit bitching about other people competing for the $$ and figure out how to make your interest group competitive for those $$. Quit telling businesses they can't run their business the way they see fit to give them an advantage. They can and they will.

Blues,
Nathan

If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.